Answered by Viktor Belousov, 12/24/2010
Inna asks:“Hello! I’ve been tormented by a question for a long time... I’m an Orthodox Christian, and my boyfriend is a Baptist... And he says that if I’m not baptized in their faith, then we won’t be able to be together... And we’ve been dating for 2 years now years and it’s time to think... Is marriage possible between us if I don’t come to his faith? But I’m not ready to accept it. Thank you in advance.”
Peace to you, Inna!
Marriage brings people together - and the more points of contact there are, the better. Faith in Christ should unite, not divide.
How will you raise your children?
Will you begin to worship icons?
Will you celebrate Orthodox “family” holidays?
Will you have mutual understanding in matters of morality and spirituality? If for “ordinary” Orthodoxy divorce is quite acceptable, then for Baptists this is an almost unacceptable option in principle.
How will you solve family planning issues?
And there will be a lot of such nuances.
14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers, for what fellowship has righteousness with iniquity? What does light have in common with darkness?
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For this reason, it is recommended to enter into a marriage covenant with fellow believers, so that unnecessary problems do not arise in new family. Because the differences are not just “cultural nuances,” but very fundamental issues from a biblical perspective.
I can advise you to determine a period - for example, half a year - when you study the Baptist doctrine, how much it corresponds to the Bible in comparison with the Orthodox. Then you will be able to make a more informed decision - and your boyfriend will be able to decide too.
Blessings,
Victor
Read more on the topic “Home and family, marriage”:
Until recently, Nadezhda Bulatova was jealous of her younger sister Veronica’s marriage in a good way. The woman herself was unable to give birth for a long time, but the other one had six. And her husband Ivan Bikhner * - calm, teetotal, always smiling - seemed like an ideal husband. The family was building a spacious house in the village of Apollonovka, 100 km from Omsk. The Beechners started their own small business producing doors. There is one “but” in this story: the family lives in a local Baptist community, which has its own laws.
TAKE ME, OTHERWISE I WILL PLACE HANDS ON MYSELF!”
The main rule is that a woman unquestioningly obeys her husband. When Veronica's relatives found out what was hidden behind this, they came to the conclusion that the family had ended up in a sect. And until recently, Veronica’s seemingly ideal husband is a real sadist, hiding behind the laws of the church.
Take me away from here, otherwise I will commit suicide! – Veronica called her family with a trembling voice.
The large family of Veronica and Nadezhda moved from Kazakhstan in the 90s. First, the youngest of the sisters was sent to the grandmother who lived here in Solntsevka. There she met Baptists and began going to their church. Veronica's relatives did not strongly object to her hobby unusual church. My grandmother even once went to their meeting to watch. The elderly woman was not embarrassed by anything: all the girls were good, sitting and drinking tea. He thinks: well, the main thing is that he’s not wandering around on the street somewhere and that’s okay.
There, a very young 17-year-old girl met her future husband, Ivan. And a few months later, Veronica confronted her taken aback relatives with a fait accompli - she was getting married.
There were already rumors around the village that he was a cruel person, supposedly he even had a “yellow certificate” from a mental hospital,” Veronica herself tells us. – But Baptists have this rule: if a guy has chosen a girl and proposes to her, she has no right to refuse. While we were dating, he did not offend me. And the day after the wedding he began to “teach.” He grabbed me by the hair and dragged me through the village along the road. All my clothes were torn. Other members of our community saw this, but no one stood up. Such laws. And my relatives live in another village. I hid everything from them - I was ashamed to tell.
From day one family life Constant and brutal beatings of Veronica became the rule. According to the woman, her husband beat her for any even minor offense.
One day I didn’t have time to put my skirt in the closet, but hung it on the door. Ivan silently and with all his strength hit his head against the wall. The last thing I remember: just like in a cartoon, sparks fell from my eyes,” says the intimidated woman.
Veronica got married at the age of 17 - according to the laws of the community, she did not have the right to refuse. Photo: Personal archive
TOOK OUT TO THE FOREST AND FORCED TO DENY MY FAMILY
Veronica still thinks about divorce with horror. Among Baptists, this is considered a mortal sin, for which one goes to hell. Nowadays, a woman’s current family life can be called hell. Over the course of 16 years, she gave birth to six children, and is now pregnant with her seventh.
Abortions are not allowed in this sect. And a lot more - cutting hair, wearing jewelry. Veronica was not allowed to use the Internet; she does not have a personal cell phone. But she did not allow her family to interfere in her life, cutting short: “This is my life, this is how we do it. I’m happy,” says her sister.
The woman spoke only when her husband began threatening to kill her. At first he simply said: it would be good if she died or committed suicide. Then he moved on to action.
After another quarrel over some trifle, he took me to the forest,” Veronica recalls with tears. - He stopped and said: “You have two options - either the two of us crash into a tree at speed, or you renounce your relatives and forbid them to come to us.” Until late at night I tried to persuade him to take pity - we have children, after all. She was on her knees and begging for mercy, but she didn’t even know what she had done wrong. If I did this, he softened. This happened this time too. Last.
The woman talks about her experience with visible effort, barely audible, with trembling lips, stopping every now and then. She looks tired, downtrodden and morally destroyed after 16 years of struggle for life. Despite all these horrors, Veronica still believes that she is to blame for everything that happened. That she was a negligent wife and mother was instilled in her every day not only by her husband, but by everyone in the community. All residents of their village are one community. Everyone knew that Ivan was bullying his wife.
Desperate, I once came to our pastor and opened up to him. He condemned me. He said, it’s a waste of you to wash dirty linen in public! Be patient, this is your cross. One day my husband beat me all night. I was able to escape and hide behind the barn. I stood barefoot in the snow for more than two hours. The neighbor saw all this and even seemed to sympathize. And the next morning she shyly averted her eyes and pretended that everything was fine.
FORCED TO WALK 40 KM AFTER CHILDREN
Veronica's older children are also intimidated. Horror appears on their faces at the mere mention of their father's name. 13-year-old Alex nervously fiddles with the edges of his jacket, talking about his everyday life.
We already know when dad starts having this... well, seizure,” the boy explains. “He turns white all over, and his eyes become so angry.” Then it's better to disappear somewhere. We are hiding in the forest. We leave and wait for everything to go away for him. And when we don’t have time, we must at least pretend that we are working. His steps become heavy when he’s like this. If we hear them outside the door, we get ready. For example, if I was reading a book, I immediately hide it and take up a broom. He's not so angry then.
The children say: their father beats them every time until they pee from the pain. Only then does he leave him alone. Little Julian, when he was 8 years old, was forced to stand in the cold in only his shorts because he fed the rabbits in the barn and did not close the door.
“One day I couldn’t stand it and opened up to our math teacher,” says another boy, Dennis. - He said that it was simply impossible to live at home. And she went and told everything to her father. She is also a member of the community. And dad punished us even more and forbade us to say what was happening at home.
He didn’t hit us in the face so that there would be no traces. But every time I was pregnant, he kicked me in the stomach. I’m also surprised how healthy children are born,” recalls a mother with many children. – It often starts because of some fictitious reason and could torment me for three days. The last birth ended in a serious complication. The doctor insisted that I stay in the hospital for a week. And he arrived: “Why did it fall apart, go home!” And I wrote a paper, something like “if I die, the doctors are not to blame” and went. On the way, he came up with a new quibble: “Why didn’t you pick up the phone when I called you? I gave you the phone number.” I answer that I was giving birth at that moment. He: “That’s not an excuse.” Then he stopped the car: “Get out. As punishment, you will have to walk home.” So I walked from Isilkul to our village more than 30 km.
It is pointless to list all the horrors - a hunted woman and children existed like this every day. She still doubts that there was anything wrong with it. It’s still difficult to open up even to a psychologist. I only believed the Baptist pastor from Omsk. They found him on purpose so that he could at least try to convey to the woman that she had ended up in a sect. Going back would be suicide.
I'm only afraid that Ivan will be imprisoned. I'm worried that something bad might happen to him. “He won’t survive parting with me,” the woman ends the conversation through tears. - And how will I return to the village now? I will now be an outcast there because I defamed the Baptists with my story.
We tried to communicate with the residents of Apollonovka. They all react nervously to questions about the Beechners. “I feel that you are insincere,” the elder of the community, Ivan Wall, was immediately taken aback. “That’s why I don’t want to talk to you.” You will write lies anyway! Goodbye! - Yes, four children from the family study with us. What do you need? – the director of the local school was wary. - I'm not going to tell you anything!
My husband became a Baptist, what should I do?
Baptists are a sect of peculiarly lost people, which has nothing to do with the Church of Christ and the salvation of God. They, like all sectarians and heretics, study the Bible incorrectly, falsely and erroneously. Turning to them and communicating with them is a sin that causes serious harm to the soul.
I don’t know if your ban will help in this case. We must try to explain their untruths and point to the Holy Fathers of the Church as the only true source of spiritual enlightenment, including in relation to the Holy Scriptures.
Baptists are a Protestant sect that appeared in 1633 in England. Initially, its representatives were called “brothers”, then “baptized Christians” or “Baptists” (Baptisto from Greek means immerse), sometimes “Catabaptists”. The head of the sect, at its inception and initial formation, was John Smith, and in North America, where a significant part of the followers of this sect soon moved, was Roger William. But here and there the heretics soon divided into two, and then into several factions. The process of this division continues to this day, due to the extreme individualism of the sect, which tolerates neither obligatory symbols and symbolic books, nor administrative tutelage. The only symbol recognized by all Baptists is the apostolic symbol.
The main points of their teaching are the recognition of Holy Scripture as the only source of doctrine and the rejection of the baptism of children; Instead of baptizing children, blessing them is practiced. Baptism, according to the teachings of Baptists, is valid only after the awakening of personal faith, and without it it is unthinkable and has no force. Hence, baptism, according to their teaching, is only an external sign of confession of a person already “internally converted” to God, and in the action of baptism the divine side of it is completely removed - God’s participation in the sacrament is eliminated, and the sacrament itself is relegated to the category of simple human actions. The general character of their discipline is Calvinistic.
According to their structure and management, they are divided into separate independent communities, or congregations (hence their other name - congregationalists); moral restraint is placed above doctrine. The basis of their entire teaching and structure is the principle of unconditional freedom of conscience. In addition to the sacrament of baptism, they also recognize communion. Although marriage is not recognized as a sacrament, its blessing is considered necessary and, moreover, through the elders or in general officials communities. The moral requirements from members are strict. The apostolic church is set as a model for the community as a whole. Forms of disciplinary action: public admonition and excommunication. The mysticism of the sect is expressed in the predominance of feeling over reason in the matter of faith; in matters of doctrine, extreme liberalism predominates. Baptistism is internally homogeneous.
His teaching is based on the doctrine of Luther and Calvin about predestination. Baptism differs from pure Lutheranism in its consistent and unconditional implementation of the basic provisions of Lutheranism about the Church, about Holy Scripture and about salvation, as well as hostility towards Orthodoxy and the Orthodox Church, and an even greater inclination towards Judaism and anarchy than in Lutheranism.
They lack a clear teaching about the Church. They deny the Church and church hierarchy, making themselves guilty of this judgment of God:
Matthew 18:
17 if he does not listen to them, tell the church; and if he does not listen to the church, then let him be to you as a pagan and a tax collector.
Media Review
A wife must obey her husband. This is written about in 1 Pet. 3:1-6. But what is not true submission to your husband? John Piper leads ten six erroneous opinions on this score.
When I preached on this topic about twenty years ago, one woman confessed that she was very glad to ask this question (what true submission to a husband is not) because we bring different opinions to the biblical text based on our experience. I guess you heard different points point of view about obedience - some you agreed with without difficulty, and some, perhaps, simply horrified you.
When we put something into the biblical text that is not there, it can turn some people off - “Oh no, that’s not for me!” But by refusing to fulfill this text, we are “throwing the baby out of the bath with the bath water.” And this is very sad. So I wrote down six things that are not really the kind of submission to your husband that Peter talks about (1 Pet. 3:1-6).
Likewise, you, wives, obey your husbands, so that those of them who do not obey the word will be won without a word by the lives of their wives when they see your pure, God-fearing lives. Let your adornment be not the outward braiding of your hair, not the golden ornaments or finery in clothing, but the innermost person of the heart in the incorruptible [beauty] of a meek and silent spirit, which is precious in the sight of God. Thus, once upon a time, holy women who trusted in God adorned themselves, obeying their husbands. So Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him master. You are her children if you do good and are not embarrassed by any fear.
1. Obeying does not mean agreeing on everything.
Submission to your husband does not mean constant compliance. A striking example is the question of faith. Suppose the husband is an unbeliever. And he says: “I forbid you to be a Christian. In our house we worship ISIS (or whatever).” It is quite possible to be submissive and at the same time reject the thinking or belief that your husband imposes on you. Without this principle, this passage (1 Pet. 3:1-6) becomes meaningless. You have sworn allegiance to Jesus. Now Jesus is your Lord and King. Yes, you have become a stranger in your family. Even an outcast - because your husband worships another god, and you are called to live with him. Don't seek a divorce because of religious differences. If your husband says, “I don’t want you to be a Christian,” what can you do? Just say: “I love you. I want to be an obedient wife. But I have no choice in this matter. I belong to Jesus." Your husband may kick you out. This possibility is mentioned in 1 Cor. 7. When an unbelieving husband demands a divorce, it can be a great tragedy for him.
Submission does not mean that you always have to agree with your husband - even when it comes to something as fundamental and serious as Christian faith. God gave you intelligence. The ability to think. You are a person, not just a body or a machine. You are a thinking being, capable of independently understanding whether the gospel being offered to you is true or not. And if it is true, then accept it. If your husband says “don’t believe it,” you humbly and obediently disagree.
2. Obedience does not mean that you need to “leave your brains at the altar” (during the wedding)
Perhaps this point duplicates the previous one, but it should be considered from a slightly different angle. Any husband who says, “In my family, only I should think,” is a spiritual sense sick and has a distorted understanding of authority and power (like a husband). Somehow I had to deal with one married couple. And the wife admitted to me that her husband requires her to ask him for permission even to go to the toilet. Yes, yes, I'm not kidding. I looked at her husband and said, “You have serious problems. You have an incredibly perverted idea of your wife, co-heir God's grace. You don't understand the Bible. You took words like “power”, “authority”, “leadership” and “obedience”, and filled them with the meaning you wanted. Your opinion has nothing to do with the Bible.”
Submission in no way means that a wife should “leave her brains at the altar.” The husband must understand that throughout his entire family life there is an “independent think tank” next to him, giving birth to his own thoughts that are worth listening to. It is this approach that serves unity, the achievement of harmony of “one flesh.” Leadership doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to your spouse's opinions. Leadership does not even mean that the husband always has the last word. Good leadership often admits its mistakes: “You were right and I was wrong.”
Leadership means taking the initiative into your own hands. Sometimes I ask couples a question: “Which of you most often suggests “let’s go…” - “Let’s go to dinner.” "Let's get our finances in order." "Let's go to church next Sunday." Etc.
So who uses the word "come on" more often? If it’s the wife, then the family has problems. More precisely, the husband has problems. If it is the husband, then it is quite possible that the wife is happy that she does not have to take the initiative again and again. Wives don’t really like to drag their husbands in tow all the time - “come on.” Generally speaking (I realize I am generalizing), good leadership means the husband's initiative under which the wife flourishes. This is not a dictate. Not “not listening to anyone.” Not even the right to the “last word.”
If you ask my wife what being submissive means to Piper, she might say this: “We made a rule early in our marriage that if we started arguing about something, John would call someone.” " This is really important. But now this almost never happens. And one of the reasons for this is that we have been together for a long time and know what the other thinks. Another reason is that I often agree with my wife. I don't have a need to always be right or always do things my way. Or demand that I always have the last word.
3. Submission does not mean that you should not try to influence your husband.
Submission does not mean that you should give up all attempts to influence your husband or try to change him in some way. The general meaning of the passage in question is the word “acquired.” A wife devotes her life to making her unbelieving husband a believer. Remember those times when someone, urging a woman to obey her husband, says: “Stop trying to change your husband!” Of course, I understand what is meant in this case (constant nagging, “sawing,” etc.). But on the other hand, it is difficult to imagine you choosing a position of passivity if your husband - the one you love - is living in sin. Some may think that trying to influence your husband is a sign of disobedience. But in reality this approach is biblical.
4. Submission does not mean you have to put your husband's will above God's will.
Submission does not mean you have to put your husband's will first rather than Christ's. Christ is now your Lord. You must obey your husband FOR THE LORD'S SAKE, but your husband is not your Lord.
Thus, whenever there is a choice between husband and Lord, the wife should choose the Lord. If, for example, a husband offers his wife some kind of scam or group sex, her choice should be categorical - in favor of Christ. She can explain to her husband that her refusal is not motivated by arrogance. She can refuse him in a spirit of meekness, submission with love and a deep heart desire that he... will not do all these bad things, and then she can be proud of him as a good leader in the family. Do you understand what's going on? The wife seems to be saying to her husband: “I will not obey you in this. But not out of stubbornness or pride. My desire is for you to see that I really want to obey you - but not in this way and not in this way.”
5. Submission does not mean complete dependence on your husband for spiritual growth.
Submitting to your husband does not mean receiving spiritual strength only through him. The text before us does not say that the husband gives spiritual power to his wife. At the same time, it has many spiritual blessings. Her hope is in God. Perhaps she goes to church on Sunday morning while her husband is still asleep. And he draws his spiritual strength from another place. And in another place he forms his worldview.
6. Submission does not mean living in fear.
A woman who fears God fears nothing.
I love the Scriptures. And I am a supporter of “mutual complementarity.” I believe that a man is called to a unique role: to be a leader in the family. I also believe that a woman is called to a unique role: to submit to her husband. And I believe that both roles complement each other wonderfully when husband and wife serve each other in love. If we dig deep into Scripture, we will see that many of its texts on marriage and family can be tremendously helpful to us in building a marriage, although they were written in completely different times.
So, in light of all that I have written about in this article (which is not truly biblical submission of a wife to her husband), submission can be defined as follows: a wife is called to honor and support her husband as a leader, and thus help him in leadership through your gifts.
Voice of Truth based on John Piper's blog Desiring God
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